Johnny Ward

Euan (00:00)
So I'm here with Jonny Ward, probably the first person, maybe the only person on this podcast with their own Wikipedia page for reasons that we'll get into in quite a lot of detail. Jonny, how are you doing today?

Johnny - OneStep4Ward (00:10)
Good, thanks mate. Just got back from a run, so I'm a bit hot and sweaty.

Euan (00:14)
Well, I mean, that's yeah, we ask our guests to do a run before they come on. So that's quite normal. So we're going to get into your absolutely fascinating life, your life of travel, your life of adventure. And there's some Tefl thrown in there as well for good measure. So take me right back to the start then. What was life like before you decided to launch on this journey that's really taking you through the rest of your life thus far?

Johnny - OneStep4Ward (00:18)
Hahaha.

Yeah, long story short, I'm from Ireland, obviously you can probably hear it from my accent. I was born in the south of Ireland and had a kind of tricky situation with my dad, he's in prison. Long story short then, as I say, my mum, my sister and I moved up north and we grew up in Northern Ireland then. We were on welfare for 10 plus years, blah blah blah. Everyone's got a sob story, mine's no different. And I always wanted to be free.

So then I went to university in England at 18 years old, left Ireland at 18 and did four years at uni in England. And then finally I was free to make a decision what I wanted to do with my life and the lifestyle I would hopefully choose to adopt.

but I didn't have any money still. So that's how English teaching kind of changed my life. Actually, I did a TEFL course and I ended up in Thailand and then that gave birth to the last 15, 16 years of my life, which we're probably going to cover in the next few questions.

Euan (01:38)
Yeah. So you talk about, you know, you use Teflon as sort of a launching pad and we will cover that a little bit more, but what were your kind of goals? Did you ever have goals to see all the rest of the world, to visit all these countries? Were you always of that mindset or was it just a case of, well, I'm going to see what the next thing is and then can I go from there?

Johnny - OneStep4Ward (01:58)
It's more of a personality thing, to be honest. I always did quite well at school. I was always getting straight A's, but also I was always getting in trouble, getting kicked out of class and all this. So I always had like…

I'm not good at taking instructions, not good with authority, but I was always quite good academically. So a lot of my friends and now my teachers, now I'm friends with them again, 20 years later would have said that they expected me to either end up in trouble or end up doing something cool. And my mom loves to tell everyone that she thought I'd either be a millionaire or imprisoned. So it was always on the cards that I was going to do something a bit different. So it wasn't a case of wanting to visit every country in the world, but I wanted to be free. I wanted to be financially free. I haven't grown up poor. I really wanted to be free.

Euan (02:31)
Yeah.

Johnny - OneStep4Ward (02:41)
be financially free, but not at the expense of selling my youth, but not at the expense of selling my 40, 50, 60 hours a week. So I want the time, freedom and financial freedom. And I know a lot of people can set at home and think like, yeah, we all want that. But I literally dedicated my whole life to make sure those two things were true. And it wasn't so much as a say a case of like, I want to visit every country in the world. It's I want to be free to make the decisions I want to do. If I want to climb mountains or run across countries or make a lot of money or build houses overseas or whatever it is, I want to be able to not have to ask permission, not have to deal with bank managers.

not have to deal with bosses. And I feel like if you would ask anyone from my background, they probably could have seen me in a situation like at least aspiring towards that. And thankfully that happened.

Euan (03:24)
Absolutely. And to go back to you made that decision to get a TEFL certificate to teach English and as you say it was a bit of a launch pad for the rest of what came next. Can you tell us what it was like finding work initially? Did you ever imagine yourself settling down and teaching in Asia long term? What was that move like for you?

Johnny - OneStep4Ward (03:35)
completely.

Yeah, honestly, you and this is why like, you know, I get asked to do a lot of podcasts and normally I say no, because I'm really busy, right? But this whole Tefl stuff, like it was.

Apart from starting my blog, doing a TEFL was literally the best decision I ever made in my life. You guys aren't paying me to be here or anything. That's the genuine truth. That's why I wanted to do it because I'm a huge, huge advocate of TEFL. I'm a huge advocate of people teaching English, especially in Asia, but globally. It literally changed my life. And I think like…

Euan (04:00)
Can it attest to that?

Johnny - OneStep4Ward (04:15)
coming from a background like mine, like working class and no father and no money and da da da, it's like an absolute surefire way to create an entirely new lifestyle for yourself and creating an adventurous life for yourself. And then who knows what it'll lead to. Of course you can have a good career in TEFL. I didn't end up doing that, of course, but I know a lot of people who, like I live in the North of Thailand here in Chiang Mai where I'm doing the call from and there's a lot of people who work online here and I'd say half of them started with TEFL. That's why I was so quick to say yes to you.

when you were asking me to do this because honestly I think it's the best choice apart from starting my blog that I ever made in my life. Sorry I just wanted to really testify towards that what was the question?

Euan (04:54)
So when you made that move to teach English in Asia, a WITI title certificate, obviously the rest of your life would dictate the answer to this would be no. But when you got that first job and you had steady income, did you imagine yourself like, okay, maybe I'll stay doing this for a few years?

Johnny - OneStep4Ward (05:09)
Ah, yes, yes, yes, yes.

Yes, I did mate, I did. So I was broke my whole life like as a when I was a child with my mom, right? And then obviously I went to uni and I was broke and but life was good. Don't get me wrong. It was fun. And then I went to Thailand to teach English and I was still broke. But life was even better. I was in Thailand. I was only working 20 hours a week. I was making new friends, cool parties, lovely food, lovely weather. Still broke, but loving life.

And I was working at a language school and like as you get to know, I'm sure you know a lot more than I do you, but for people listening, as you get to know more about the industry, you realize there's like a whole hierarchy of what it means, what TEFL means from entry level jobs like me at 22 or 23 that I was then making six, 700 bucks a month to people designing syllabi for schools making five, six, 10 grand a month in the Gulf States, for example. So the whole scope was available. And I was aware of that after my first year in Thailand. And this was,

before I knew about blogging or anything and I absolutely had planned to work and then run out and hit the road, travel a bit, run out of money, back to teach again and slowly make my way up through the Tefl hierarchy. And actually, four years after I taught English in both Thailand and in Korea.

And I ended up actually moving to Malaysia to do a master's in management with a focus on education because I wanted to come back to Thailand and do more Tefl ESL stuff. Because I realized that although I was working in a language school, which was essentially part time, which was brilliant for the record, I was broke, but I loads of free time to study Thai, to travel around Thailand. So that was great. But as you get older, you wanted something with a bit more stability. And I was aware that there were jobs available where people were making five times what I was making. And my life was already good in Thailand.

Thailand without much money so I was thinking God imagine having a better job making four or five times this like that's the dream so that was completely my plan actually before things changed.

Euan (07:11)
That is both a great anecdote and kind of a relief because part of me was going like, oh no, he's going to say, oh, Tefl was just a footnote in this journey. No, that's great. I'm very, very glad to hear that. So talk to me about when you started your blog as well, because not only does I have a lot in common with other guests we've had who combine sort of travel writing and experiences with Tefl, but you know, your blog became wildly successful. So when did you set up your blog for those who don't know?

Johnny - OneStep4Ward (07:20)
No, no.

Euan (07:38)
And can you tell us about the initial kind of goals that you had for it?

Johnny - OneStep4Ward (07:42)
I can, mate, but just before I do that, as I said, I started English teaching back, what, 10, 15 years ago, it was my first step to this new lifestyle, and that was in Chiang Mai, in Thailand. I fell in love with Chiang Mai. And then for anyone who follows me or anyone who Googles me after this, I've made a few million from my blog now, and I've ended up coming back to Chiang Mai. So here I am, back in the same place that it all started, and now I'm hanging out with…

still three, four, five guys who I met 15 years ago teaching English here who have built good careers themselves. I had lunch with a guy, an English guy yesterday called Max, who's still here teaching English and he's designing syllabus for International House. So it completely shows you that people can create a life from it. But then I taught English 2007, 2008, 2009 in Korea and I ended up.

getting like a real job, not an English language school job because my TEFL job was, as I say, only 20 hours a week. So it was essentially part time and being broke was getting a bit old and I ended up moving to Australia, like half of Ireland on a working holiday visa. And that was cool as well. Very different situation to living in Thailand teaching. So suddenly I was in Australia, which obviously…

very affluent and I was working in a sales job, like cold calling, brutal job, but making 10K a month or whatever, like really cashing in, but no free time and grinding out on the phone. And I was dreaming of the days when I was broke in Thailand, living, loving life instead of like making loads of money in Australia, but being depressed. And actually all's well ends well my time in Australia then because I hated that corporate world so much and I was making good money. So.

That was a huge epiphany for me. A lot of people think that like, oh, grind out in the corporate world, grind out and eventually I'll get enough money that it'll be worth it. I was instantly getting paid quite well because it was a sales job, commission based, and I was good at it. So I was making like six figures at 25, 26 years old, whatever I was, and I still hated it. So that was a huge blessing for me because I realized that the money was never going to be enough to compensate for how like awful that mentality of grinding out in the corporate world was. Anyway, I see that like as a very positive experience because it was during that time I started my blog.

That was 2010 and the company in Australia they sponsored me for anyone who knows how that works like they gave me basically a Passport stamp to permanently live in Australia and ultimately become an Australian citizen they paid all the money for that because I was good at the job and I was just hated it so much like three months after they did that I started my blog and quit the company and flew one way to Zimbabwe but

My buddy who I sat beside, who was even better at sales than I was, is now CEO of that company. And I've got a charity, like since I finished doing all my countries and like my blog became a little bit famous. I have a charity where we build like kindergartens and playgrounds and all this for developing communities, often in Thailand. And my mate, like one of my best mates, who's now CEO of that company, we work with him every year and we do a big charity project. So it's cool how things come full circle.

Euan (10:37)
It shows you there's something to be gleaned from every experience, even if it's a negative one. I mean, that's like, you know, talk about how much you dislike that job and now, you know, that same company, that's, that's amazing. And yeah, it's a little bit sarcasm, isn't it? So, you know, now, and we're going to get into more detail about this, obviously, but you're the first person to visit a debit country in the world and the North and South Pole. And we've got so many questions about this, but.

Johnny - OneStep4Ward (10:42)
Yeah.

Yeah, that's nice.

Yeah, absolutely.

Euan (11:04)
Did you ever think that was possible or realistic? Like when you started? Oh sorry. I apologize.

Johnny - OneStep4Ward (11:06)
That's not right. Sorry, that's not right. A few people have done every country North and South Pole, but no one has done every country North, South Pole and seven summits.

Euan (11:17)
That's it. Okay. I apologize. Can I ask the question again? Is that okay? Oh, well, fine. My apologies. But did you, I mean, obviously, you know, when did it sort of dawn on you that this was a thing that was kind of, that was possible to you? I mean, did you ever think that like, yeah, I could do that realistically? Or was it a case of, I'm just going to have a go at this and see what happens.

Johnny - OneStep4Ward (11:20)
No, it's fine. Just upload it like this. Who cares?

Well, I finished my journey to every country in 2017, so six and a half years ago. I was only 33. And I knew that I would, when you do something yourself, it doesn't feel as impressive, right? Because you watch it externally, like maybe you think like, oh my God, he's visited every country. I used to think that about people. And then when you do it yourself and you know that you're normal, it doesn't feel as impressive and you realize that anyone can do it, right? And so that's what it felt a bit like for me. But then,

trying like I tried to contextualize it and when I did it at 33 I was the second or third youngest person to ever have done it and then also I found out I was the only person from Ireland who'd ever done it and then it did make me think oh actually this isn't so common right it's not so common.

But because it was such a big journey, like 11 years, that took me a full time travel basically. I ended up in a big lull after it. I was still based, I was based in Bangkok at the time, although I was never there because I was doing the every country thing. But I would fly back to Thailand, get visas and stuff and continue. And once I'd finished, I came back from Norway, which is my last country and like I didn't know what to do with my life. I'd started to make good money. So I wasn't really financially under pressure. I had a lot of free time because blogging, especially once you've hit critical mass, doesn't, you don't need to be working 60 hour weeks. And I was like,

God, what am going to do? And it was a real crossroads in my life. Ended up drinking too much. I got fat for the first time in my life. I was like staying up late, waking up late, playing PlayStation all the time. Like it wasn't a healthy mindset at all. And then I started running ultra marathons and climbing mountains. And like same as with the travel for me, like if you're going to do something, do it properly. I hate people sitting back like in their mom's basement complaining about life and I didn't want to become that. So if you're going to travel, travel every country in the world, you're going to run a marathon, run the hardest ultra you can find. You're going to climb a mountain.

Climb Everest and then I realized once when I did a bit of research that no one had ever done the Explorers Grand Slam which is every country, Explorers Grand Slam which is North South Pole and the Seven Summits and every country and you know that what do you call that a Venn diagram and you have like circles that overlap like I drew it on Canva like every country in the world like five six seven hundred people have done that Explorers Grand Slam two hundred people have done that overlap like no one's done them both okay I'll do

Euan (13:42)
Yeah.

so something I have to ask, because it maybe sounds like a really, really obvious question to you, and you've probably been asked it much before, but, you know, when you do the Grand Explorer slam, you do the Seven Peaks, you did North and South Pole, you do every country. You had touched on it before and.

what it felt like to actually kind of get it done, but what happens? Like, do the Guinness Book of Records people get in touch with you? Like, how does it, how does that kind of work? Like, what happens at that point?

Johnny - OneStep4Ward (14:21)
You know, when I just turned 40, something that's very nice about getting older, I find, especially with a guy, as a guy, is like…

Of course I've still got a huge ego, climbing mountains and running ultras is all about ego, but my ego is a lot smaller than it used to be. So when I was, let's say 30, and I knew I was approaching finishing every country, I contacted Guinness and I was like, what do I do about this? And they asked for so much admin, especially with every country, because they need proof of every country. And I was like, God, do I want to do this? Do I want to?

search through what do you call that met meta tags or meta information of every photograph I've taken for 200 countries or whatever God it's a lot of work and maybe I will maybe I won't and I did like a half -assed attempt at it at 30 and it got rejected because like oh we need proof from make to make sure that you're in the north of the border and Democratic Republic of Congo God bollocks to this I'm not doing this so then now at 40 at 40 I'm like I absolutely don't care I know I've done it

Everyone who's followed me for years has seen it in real time. So I don't care. I haven't applied for it. I won't apply for it. And I'm happy to, I'm like, I'm proud of what I've done myself.

Euan (15:34)
We'll maybe not send a pint of Guinness in the post then. But you've… Fair enough. Now, you're probably the only person… I don't want to cast aspersions on any former or future podcast guests, but you're probably the only one we've had that's claimed Mount Everest. So I have to ask about that. And there are so many questions I could ask, but most of all, what kind of preparation is involved for an expedition like that? And what does it feel like to finally make the summit? Does it…

Johnny - OneStep4Ward (15:37)
I know you can do that!

Euan (16:01)
Is it a feeling you can describe with words or is it just a feeling that only people who have claimed it will know?

Johnny - OneStep4Ward (16:06)
It's a very difficult question, you know, also like you coming from the UK, Scotland, UK, like for Americans it's slightly different, but if you come from the UK or Ireland, it's basically super posh people who climb Everest, who sound like the king or the queen, right? Like that's how we are exposed to Everest as we grow up and watch TV's and documentaries and all that. So those kind of people don't have to worry about the financial cost of expeditions and the financial cost is so heavy. I'm very open about it.

finances when I was broke and now I'm not so broke so I don't mind talking about how much it costs but it's like 77 ,000 euro which is like 65, 70 grand or whatever sterling so for me that's so much money for almost anyone that's so much money but all these posh guys that you grow up watching on TV they don't have to care about it so they can…

come to Everest, risk death, get a bit scared, walk away, come back the following year with a bit more knowledge, try again, walk away, third year, they can crack it. For me, because of the cost of it, it was one shot or done. So I feel like people are in my situation, and there are some, although not so many, there's a lot of posh people on the mountain, it's a whole nother level of pressure. You're under pressure already because all your friends and family know you're doing it and you don't want to fail and obviously you've got your own

dreams but knowing that because of the finances it's one shot at it which adds a whole nother level of pressure and then that means of course if you're fortunate enough to survive and succeed then it's more relief than euphoria.

or at least it was for me. Although having said that, I did make a video at the top of Everest you can see on my Instagram. Like I wasn't expecting, because I've done a lot of cool stuff and a lot of big stuff and a lot of physical challenges like at first in the world and all this. And normally I'm proud, but onto the next one. But when I was in the summit of Everest, I had this like a massive…

emotional outpouring. I completely wasn't expecting it. I've never had it before and I'll probably never have it since. I think both the financial pressure, the pride of where you've come from to being on the summit of the world, the like facing death and hopefully being through that, although coming down a lot of people died too. I was well aware of that. So it's just relief.

But then soon after that outpouring, like you're still at the summit, it's minus 40, minus 50 degrees or whatever. And there's like, you've heard about 18 people died that season. I did it just six, seven months ago and it's a long way down. So I like instantly, you're like, you gotta take some of the energy gels, take some fluids and be like, right, game face for another, it takes three, four or five days to get down. And then, and then.

Euan (18:29)
Mm -hmm.

Johnny - OneStep4Ward (18:42)
Then I just dreamed of being in a cool Irish bar in Kathmandu I just wanted to be in there drunk for three days but I was just so wrecked. It took me like four months to recover. Really it did. did.

Euan (18:51)
Yeah. I mean, I can imagine that. Well, I can't imagine the sheer physical toll it takes on you. And on a similar… See, I did think that. I did think it would be kind of difficult. I'm talking of, you know, kind of treacherous expeditions. You've been to both the North and South Poles. So I'm to have to ask about that. I don't want to sound like I'm obsessed with admin, but like, how do you even go about arranging things like that? How do you, who do you speak to to be like…

Johnny - OneStep4Ward (18:57)
It's hard, man. It's very, very hard.

Bye.

Euan (19:21)
So yeah, I want to go to the South Pole. Like, that's not a Ryanair flight. Like, how does that get done?

Johnny - OneStep4Ward (19:26)
There's logistics. There's normally third party, often military style logistics already exist for scientists and military stuff. In the North Pole, there's a base called Barneo that the Russians set up every winter or every summer. I'm not sure which it is. No, every winter, I think. And they set up this like…

they fly in on the special plane and it drops like a digger, like a articulated digger thing. It's hectic, mate. And then that clears a runway. It's just two guys and a tent and a digger and they get dropped on the ice and then they dig a runway out with that digger over two or three days. And then that allows a slightly bigger airplane to land and then that slightly bigger airplane has got a bigger tent and then you can go in and stay in those bigger tents. And then…

And then there's an Irish guy who runs, actually he's just sold the company, but you can run a marathon at the North Pole, and that's what I did. And they outsourced to that Russian operator, so I could pay the Irish guy who pays the Russians, and that's how I got in and then ran a North Pole marathon.

Euan (20:33)
So a couple of things arise from that. How do you prepare? How do you do a marathon in such cold, cold weather? I that's surely that's got to be, I mean, do you kind of throw away everything that you've learned about like energy and about rest from doing it somewhere with climate weather or?

Johnny - OneStep4Ward (20:50)
Well, this is 2018, so I'd just finished my countries. I'd just snapped out of my five, six month depression of like finishing it and being a bit lost in life and had this like epiphany to start doing like hardcore stuff.

So I'd never run a marathon before and I was living in Thailand and it's like 40 degrees. And then my charity had just started taking off because I've had a lot of followers from on my blog from finishing the country and a lot of media featured me. So I had a lot of people reading my blog. So I started this charity and we were building a school in Delhi. So I was in Delhi for like three weeks before. It was like plus 45 degrees. And I flew straight from Delhi with my mates borrowed ski clothes because I'd never run a marathon. I didn't know anything about what I was supposed to wear or anything. And I'd obviously had never been like…

Arctic or anything in the North Pole so I was using a mate's ski gear that brought to Delhi with me and then I flew from Delhi to Svalbard which is like an island way up near the North Pole and landed there and then I had a briefing there and then we took this like military plane to the North Pole and then I just got dumped to the side with all these like expert athletes so then we were in this tent freezing and I was like God I don't know what my…

Euan (21:53)
Yeah.

Johnny - OneStep4Ward (21:57)
do here and they hit this buzzer saying like the marathons in two hours it's quite serious it's quite serious business because if you got the wrong gear you're outside you could freeze to death very quickly right frostbite and all this and then everyone takes off all their like ski gear and puts on all this specialist outdoor running gear and they're like Johnny Johnny put your gear on I'm like this is my gear what do you mean this is this is all I have so I had to run in that but now I know a bit so then so that two weeks ago I just did another marathon like near the South Pole but now I'm a

Euan (22:22)
is.

Johnny - OneStep4Ward (22:27)
experience that was a bit more prepared.

Euan (22:30)
I can't imagine people's faces as they look at you and go like, oh well he hasn't got all this stuff, okay. That is absolutely wild.

Johnny - OneStep4Ward (22:37)
Well, they said to me like they were very loud, like ultra ultra marathons and stuff. They were very nice. And once they saw it, I was like.

lost puppy they were like what energy gels do you normally use when you run marathons I was like I've never run a marathon before they're like take this take this take this okay thanks thanks

Euan (22:56)
Oh, goodness me. That is absolutely wild. And talking of the more sort of unusual experiences you've had, because, I mean, it's not every day that you're on your first marathon ever and it's at the North Pole. But just from reading your blog, and obviously when you do something, you visit every country, there are certain countries that are going to come up in terms of like, how on earth did you manage to get into there? Because some countries, whether it's political or whether it's religious or whether it's a range of things, there's all sorts of difficulties that can come up. So…

Talk to me about your experiences of getting access to Turkmenistan and North Korea. How difficult was that? And did you ever feel like your goal to visit every country, when you're in the depths of that and achieving that, did you ever feel it was kind of in jeopardy because of, I mean, well, North Korea and Turkmenistan countries like that.

Johnny - OneStep4Ward (23:43)
I get the risk of sounding like an American self -help guru. Once I've made a decision to do something 100 % it's gonna happen. I'd never had any doubt that I'm gonna do it. Because I'm happy to break laws and smuggle myself into countries and risk death and all this. That's why people were worried when I was in Everest because I was gonna succeed or die.

So how are you going to live your life if you want to achieve big things? I really believe that. Anyway, so was it ever in Japanese? I mean, it felt in Japanese. North Korea is easy, just for the record. I know a lot of people ask me about that. It's very easy. You go through one of their government fixers and they outsource to two companies, Corio and Young Pioneers. And I know the owner of Young Pioneers. That's that wild company that that guy died in North Korea. He's a bit mental, the guy, but he's a fun guy. I used them.

Euan (24:08)
Hmm.

Johnny - OneStep4Ward (24:30)
They're quite a boozy way to visit North Korea. So it's easy anyway, very easy. You don't have to apply for a visa or anything. They take care of it all. But Turkmenistan is tough. I tried and failed three or four times to get in there. And then I met a guy who helps with permits and he gets me in and now I run trips there actually. I'm setting up a 300k yearly cycle there.

2025 will be the first year we launch that. It's in the process at the moment. It's a very cool country. But those are the, it's, I guess, a country that could jeopardize it. Because I know a guy, there's a Croatian guy who's trying to become the first Croatian to visit every country in the world and he can't get into Turkmenistan. So I guess it's in jeopardy. But eventually he'll get in and he's a bit more clean cut. So he wants to get the visas where I would just be flying to Iran and walking across the border if it was my last country.

But Yemen I had a big issue with. It was like in the depths of civil war when I went in 2017 and I ended up in a cargo ship for a few days to get in there. I ended up in this Indian cement boat for four days across the Somalian Sea to get to Yemen because I tried and failed six times.

Euan (25:38)
Mm.

Johnny - OneStep4Ward (25:38)
It was my second last country. I know what, that's what I say. You got to, what I'm going to do, go home for a year. I'm going to make it happen. So I ended up moving to this town in Oman called Salalah for a month and paid for a month's rent and said, like, I'm not leaving Oman. It borders Yemen, obviously. I'm not leaving Oman until I get into Yemen. And I met a guy who helped me bribe officials and stuff and ended up in this cargo ship that took me into Yemen.

Euan (25:51)
Mm -hmm.

Johnny - OneStep4Ward (26:03)
But I always figured I would eventually get there and I did. And then for Saudi, until MBS was in power, there was no such thing as a tourist visa. So a friend of a friend that ended up like officially hiring me and I got in on a business visa and similar situations in Pakistan and Angola. I mean, if there's a will, there's a way. If you want to do something cool with your life, these kind of setbacks, you can't sit at home and cry about it. You have to work out.

Yeah.

Euan (26:36)
Yeah, that's incredible. And I have to ask, when you are in these countries that have either their dictatorships or they don't really have outside visitors, you have to smuggle yourself in. By the way, we could do a whole podcast about the cargo boat thing you just mentioned. But when you're there, what does it feel like? Because you must feel heavily surveyed. You must feel as if people are watching you. Or did you manage to get yourself into situations where you're a bit more incognito? I mean, how did that kind of…

Johnny - OneStep4Ward (27:03)
Wow, I'm a pasty white Irishman, so Incognito is a tough sell.

Euan (27:07)
Yeah, yeah. I mean, yeah, the…

Johnny - OneStep4Ward (27:11)
No, North Korea, North Korea you literally have like government handlers with you, but you have to go through government agencies So, you know that's gonna happen but the rest of the time like before I for my blog started making good money I was doing on a super tight budget So I would just arrive by land because I never flew for the first five or six years at the land border pay my bribe or whatever to get the visa and then just end up in the capital city with nothing booked and

nine times out of ten people would be like what the hell is this guy doing and it would generally help you and even in the in the sketchier countries more often than not it's the governments that are sketchy isn't it and the people are cool that's not always the case like there's a few countries in central and west africa that are pretty rough in Papua New Guinea.

But generally people are looking out for you. You just got to make sure you don't arrive at night. Like if I was going to any moderately dangerous or dangerous country and I was getting towards the border at night time, I would just hunker down into some crappy guest house and wait until the middle of the day because the chances of stuff happening at night are infinitely higher.

But bad things do happen. I've been robbed and I've been in car crashes, I've been in hospital loads of times. You've just got to take it in the chin. And then I guess there's two sides to visiting every country. There's doing it how I feel. I did it over land over 10 years, two, three, four weeks per country, really feeling like you're…

on an adventure. That's what I wanted, the life I dreamed of and I did. And then there's this new wave of TikToks, every country travellers who fly in, fly out, fly in, fly out, Catville City, Radisson Blue, fly in, fly out, Marriott, fly in, fly out. Okay, whatever, sure. I mean, technically that's every country, but I don't want that. I want the stories, I want the adventure, I want the chicken buses and the hospitals and the police stations.

Euan (28:57)
I mean, I don't think those people would survive Everest is the main thing there. I'm taking away from

So I know it's a big question and, you know, it maybe sounds a little bit vague, but equally, I have to ask it because, you know, I'm just I'm sure there's a story here. So of all the places that you've traveled, which one surprised you the most and why was why was that?

Johnny - OneStep4Ward (29:16)
Which one surprised me the most? Oh, I've got a good answer. I've got two good answers for that actually. And I'm kind of scared to say them because I don't want them to blow up. Anyway, if you're like 20 years old or 25 years old, Iceland is like a big hotspot for bucket list travel, right? But if you're 35, 40 plus, like I just turned 40, Iceland when I was 20 wasn't a destination, right? And now it's every man and his dog with an Instagram account is there. And there's two places that are about to do that.

And I'm about to contribute to it sadly. The Faroe Islands, I don't know if you know it, well you should, and it's near Scotland actually, just north of Scotland, it belongs to Denmark and Svalbard, which is where I accidentally discovered, because that's where I had used my jump off point for South Pole, North Pole, which belongs to Norway. So there are two islands in the Arctic Circle, or the Faroes aren't actually in the Arctic Circle, but up there. And…

Euan (29:48)
Hehehe.

Yes?

Johnny - OneStep4Ward (30:12)
they're both just spectacular, like ridiculously spectacular. They should be world famous destinations. I'd say those two plus the island of Socotra, which belongs to Yemen, which is when I did that four days on a cement boat I ended up in. I think those three places only because Socotra belongs to Yemen, so people are scared to go even though the island itself is safe, maybe the most beautiful place in the world, Google image it, it's wild.

And then Faroe Islands and Svalbard, although I do think Faroe Islands and Svalbard will blow up because they both belong to Scandinavian countries and I'd say the next 20 years they're going to be real tourist hotspots. But right now they're still quite obscure, amazing destinations. Polar bears in the wild and all this wild stuff is cool.

Euan (30:55)
That's awesome. Yeah, I imagine in 15, 20 years time, we'll be looking, we'll be listening back to this and sort of wondering if the Faroese travel board can maybe get in touch. But was there anywhere, I'm talking of kind of places that you weren't maybe as familiar with beforehand, although obviously your knowledge of the world is incredible. But was there anywhere on your sort of travel itinerary that…

you know, through the years, you weren't as excited about going there, but you ended up kind of falling in love with them. I mean, obviously we've talked about a few different places there. Was there anywhere else where you thought like, oh, I don't know about, I don't know about here, but I have to go. And then, yeah.

Johnny - OneStep4Ward (31:24)
Yeah.

Yes. Yeah, I mean, it's very easy for me to say this is a guy, so I understand the context here, but I am a guy, so it is what it is. But I have always loved traveling through the Middle East. Or not even just the Middle East, the Arab world, so North Africa as well. And when I was going from Cape Town to Casablanca by public transport one time over like a year or whatever.

And I ended up in Mauritania, which is a country in West Africa, just south of Morocco. And that just felt like you leave Senegal, which feels like West Africa, like music and parties and energy and chaos. And then there's Mauritania and then above it, it's Morocco and Riyadhs and tea and like nice roads. And in the middle of it, it's Mauritania, which is a country most people can put on a map, I think. And it…

It's just, not only is it beautiful, it's the real Sahara. I know people go to, this is gonna be kind of offensive and confronting to people. If you go to the Sahara in Morocco or Egypt and you feel like you're in the Sahara, but they're selling you Chinese fridge magnets as you're there. And then you go to the Mauritanian Sahara, it's like the real Sahara, without the tourists, without the infrastructure. And it's just spectacular and beautiful. And the Mauritanian people.

There's been no globalisation there for better or worse and it's just a wild experience, like a true Arabic, African, Saharan experience to travel around Mauritania and now that's a country I go back to all the time. I'm setting an ultramarathon up there. The first edition will be in…

first week of December this year, 2024, because I love it. I go back three, four times a year. It really grasped me. I've got a very close friend there, like a Mauritanian guy, and we're running it together. And it's just beautiful. And then for people who follow me or people who don't, if you Google the iron ore train in Mauritania, you can hitch a ride on this, the longest train in the world, which there's a big iron mine in the center of the Sahara.

And there's a one mile long train that digs it out every day and takes it to the coast. And you can go and get dropped off in the middle of the Sahara and then climb on top of that train and ride it through the night for like 15 hours on the rail. Yeah, cool.

Euan (33:50)
During your travels you've visited war zones, you've visited disputed territories, other places you could describe kindly as a bit unsettled. What kind of experiences have you had in those countries? Even ones where you've smuggled yourself in. You talked a little bit about the danger beforehand, but were there ever experiences you had where you just thought, oh my god, what we're doing here?

Johnny - OneStep4Ward (34:18)
Yeah, in Mogadishu in Somalia. I had been like, there's a, Somalia, if you're like a bit autistic and you love like obsessions with things like I do, like countries and da da da da, yeah, and then you fixate on these things. This might be boring to some people, but I'm obsessed with this stuff.

Euan (34:38)
and two.

Johnny - OneStep4Ward (34:38)
Somalia, for example, is split into kind of three regions. Two slash three regions are Somalia that we know of with the blue flag, with the star, the scary one, Mogadishu. And then actually north of that are two regions called Somaliland and Puntland. I'm not going to bore everyone with this, don't worry.

Anyway, they are independent nations but they're not recognised internationally. So when I was visiting every country in the world, you can go to the north of something which is called, which should be a country, but it's called Somali land and it's safe, right? But it's kind of cheating because it's not Somalia really, it's its own nation.

And then when I was coming towards the end of finishing my every country, I couldn't sleep at night because I knew I had cheated by not going to the real Somalia, the scary Somalia. So I organized a trip to go to Mogadishu and I landed there and it was like, there's two compounds you can stay in. One of them was under attack by Al -Shabaab when I arrived and she was like, and I'm in the airport and I was like, what am I doing here just to say that I've been here? And then I was there for three or four days. We went to the Black Hawk Down place with a helicopter still sitting on the ground.

ground and the day I was gonna leave Al Shabaab then attacked the airport we were stuck in the compound and just like AK -47s shooting through the night and I was like this is stupid I shouldn't be here.

Euan (35:52)
Yeah, maybe thinking about Radisson Blue at that stage. But talking of disputes and of regions that maybe seem a bit unsafe from the outside, but clearly you're able to have an experience there, I have to ask about this amazing blog that you wrote. I mean, they're all really good. Anyone with any sort of inkling towards an interest in travel should be reading your blog. But…

Johnny - OneStep4Ward (35:55)
Yeah.

Euan (36:17)
There's a particularly good one I thought you wrote about taking your mum to Afghanistan for her birthday. For those who haven't read that blog, and they should read that blog, how did that all go? Because that's an amazing story.

Johnny - OneStep4Ward (36:29)
This was before the Taliban, so it's actually safer now for foreigners. But I just organized a police escort to pick me up in Kabul. I was in Ireland visiting my mom as I was organizing, so I was on loudspeaker because I was doing something. My phone was on loudspeaker and I was speaking to the security firm that had organized to pick me up.

And it's quite expensive all these like, like when you have armed guards and all that's expensive, but I'd already paid for it because I paid for it for myself and the guy on the phone, my mum's in the kitchen making me dinner. I was in the living room like working or whatever. And the guy's like, okay, Johnny, like now you've paid for that. We can use that security detail, whether you come alone or whether you come with your friend or your wife or your, your mum or your dad. And my mum could hear it in the kitchen. She's like, what did they say? What?

It's free for me to come, I can come too. And I was like, God, here we go. And then fast forward, that'd be four months. And I'm in Kabul with her. I actually got really drunk in Istanbul the night before and ended up in Kandahar by mistake. And then I missed my flight. I got off in the wrong, it was supposed to be a direct flight, but it stopped in Kandahar. And I so, I just got to bed at three in the morning. And then I had to be at the airport at five, whatever.

I was like drunk, come over and when it stopped I was like, oh shit, this must be Caboo. And then I got off the plane, it was Kandahar and the plane took off. I'm just stuck there. And I'm meeting my mum in Caboo. I'm like, God, she's gonna land in Caboo without me. God, it's stressful morning.

Euan (37:58)
Yeah.

me. And so how was the trip itself? Because again, it's a brilliant blog and it defies explanation, but there's a brilliant photo of your mum holding an AK. It's just absolutely incredible. So how was that trip? Was it pretty peaceful when you got to show your mum really cool sort of bits of Kabul?

Johnny - OneStep4Ward (38:25)
Both those things, one of those things is true. It was not pretty peaceful, but I did get to show my mum some very cool places. Yeah. It was very dangerous then, because obviously, I think if you just read the snapshots of what the Taliban is or are, that's not representative of the reality there. Because some of the Taliban are absolute extremists and…

if you believe in this would go straight to hell. But then because of the depth of the religion, the huge, huge swaths of the population support the Taliban. I know the US propaganda makes us feel like the Taliban have stolen Afghanistan. I hate the Taliban for the record. However, they're hugely supported in Afghanistan. Some people don't like them, of course, but many do. So it's not it wasn't safe then because the Taliban were constantly pushing against the regime.

Euan (39:09)
Mm -hmm.

Johnny - OneStep4Ward (39:22)
So it wasn't a great time to be there as a foreigner. And we were constantly, like anytime we would get, especially in Kabul, anytime we were out and about, they would hear murmurs on the radio and we'd be whisked out of there. But when you went outside Kabul into the, like the countryside and stuff, it was lovely. I mean, it's just politics and religion messing everything up, isn't it? People are people and then politics and religion gets involved. And also it doesn't help that like the strength of, like the strength of the US media, everyone assumes when you're white that you're American.

which isn't helpful either.

Euan (39:54)
I can imagine in certain places, no, it's definitely not helpful. But well, actually, that leads quite nicely into the next question, because we're going to talk about one of the sort of few communist outposts remaining in Europe. I want to ask about Transnistria, because for those who don't know about… Well, thank you. I have to say it's mostly down to football, but never mind. But for those who don't know about Transnistria, it's a sort of disputed territory. It's a little stretch of land that still is…

Johnny - OneStep4Ward (40:08)
Good knowledge.

Euan (40:23)
is Marxist -Leninist and it has all this sort of old kind of Soviet architecture. So for those who don't know, what happens there and what was it like to visit? Because it has to be up, I mean I don't want to speak for you but surely that's up in the sort of most unique places you've been, no?

Johnny - OneStep4Ward (40:39)
Have you been?

Euan (40:41)
Never, I'd love to though.

Johnny - OneStep4Ward (40:43)
You should go mate, it's very cheap. It's really cheap, it's the cheapest place in Europe. So like going there for a week holiday, very cool. You fly to Moldova, to Kisunau and from there, from there it's quite easy to go. I think you have, did I get a permit to go in? I can't remember if I got a permit in Kisunau and then I took a bus there or did I just take a bus there and get a permit on the border?

And then, what do you call it? What do you call the capital of Transnistria?

Euan (41:14)
Um, all right, let's get it in my head and um,

Johnny - OneStep4Ward (41:17)
Anyway, yes, it was very interesting. Tiraspol, yeah, Tiraspol. So when you're in Tiraspol, yeah, really fascinating place, like you say, because if you're obsessed with countries and all this kind of stuff, like the former Soviet architecture, I find it really interesting. And they have a very big cognac factory there and you can go on tour. Moldova is officially the cheapest country in Europe. And then obviously,

Euan (41:22)
To us both.

Johnny - OneStep4Ward (41:46)
Transnistria is like a disputed territory within Moldova, so it's half the price of Moldova, so you can't spend your money. And the people are just drinking a lot there, and they're very surprised to see foreigners. There's obviously only a handful every few weeks or months. But friendly enough, it's very safe. A country like that's very safe. Although now, obviously with what's going on with Russian Ukraine, it's probably less safe now. But yeah, fascinating place. Quite easy to get into. Like I say, there's no danger. You might have to…

Euan (42:09)
Yeah, I can imagine.

Johnny - OneStep4Ward (42:16)
The only danger in these kind of places, and I wouldn't even use the word danger, is that you might get a bit of a friendly shakedown by the police or the military where they expect a couple of dollars to be on their way. But it's not an aggressive thing. It's like they want a cup of tea, they would call it whatever. It's easier just to pay the two bucks than to deal with the issue. But yeah, I was there with one of my mates, very cool place. I'd be very keen to go back, although perhaps not right now.

Euan (42:42)
No, I can't imagine this the safest place in the world right now. But yeah, it's yeah, one of these places where so just just kind of quickly on that. I mean, is it there are places where you have if you have a certain passport in your stamp, it's kind of difficult to go back through other routes with transnistria like that. Or did you go back to Moldovan customs and everyone was fine? Right.

Johnny - OneStep4Ward (42:57)
No, no, no, no, that was fine. The only ones like again for people, I don't know, like it's quite esoteric. I'm not sure this is going to appeal to the mainstream audience, but South Ossetia and Abkhazia have got those issues with Georgia and Russia, but Transnistria is

Euan (43:14)
So Johnny, we've barely scratched the surface of what you've achieved over the last 20 or so years. And honestly, there's hours and hours worth of podcast material somewhere. And people should try and listen to more of your podcast. But let's kind of take it back to the start again. How much would you say that Teffel helped you in starting this remarkable journey? You touched on it a little bit earlier, but if we go into a little more detail there.

Johnny - OneStep4Ward (43:37)
Yeah, I literally mean it was everything. It literally changed my life. If I hadn't done it, I would have ended up, I studied economics at university, I would have ended up in London working in finance. And sure, I probably would have made some money, but I would have been working 60 hour weeks for 15 years. And for what? It completely changed my life. And then with that step to do my TAFL, it opened up not…

Not only did it open up tangible possibilities, obviously I took it with my blog and I know many other people with different opportunities that have been presented, whether it's in Tokyo or Seoul or Bangkok, but also opens your mind to stuff too, whether you want to stay in the Tefl world, which is a great career, and many of my friends have done that, or…

All the various other things that it can lead to. It completely changed my life. I'll tell you, it was the second biggest and best decision I ever made. And even in my early years of blogging, when the money was starting to be good, but who knew if it was going to stay or go, I always had, I always felt like I had this huge safety net that I could always just go back to teaching English, which is like a great lifestyle anyway. And I felt…

that was like a huge pressure release knowing that my worst case scenario isn't back to Ireland and working in a factory. My worst case scenario was like moving to Tokyo and teaching like while I live in Japan. That's cool.

Euan (44:57)
It is cool. And the fact that you've been able to maintain a blog for this long as well and the wild popularity it's had, that's also very cool. So what's the, you know, we get lots of people who teach English, but they also keep travel blogs and that's great and they're successful. But from a writing perspective, because obviously we talked about, you know, teaching English and clearly, you know, you're someone who writes really well. What's the best writing advice you would give to someone who wants to keep a travel blog or a blog about their experiences abroad because…

Not every travel blog is successful. There has to be some kind of secret sauce, if you like.

Johnny - OneStep4Ward (45:29)
Well, first of all, thanks, Ewan, but I'm actually not a good writer, but thank you anyway. And I would say on that note, being a good writer is not what makes a successful travel blog. A lot of writers are lazy. A lot of people are lazy, Ewan. This is the reality. And the success of a blog or slash anything in your entire life is how hard you work and how smart you work and the ability to be a good writer.

Like, there's many, I'm average at best, and I'm one of the biggest travel bloggers out there, certainly with financial rewards. And there's a million bloggers who are 10 times better writers than me who never did it, but they want to wake up at 10 .30 and be a starving artist, whereas I get out and hustle. And that's the difference.

Euan (46:20)
Fair play. And you've shown that worldwide travel is possible. I do mean worldwide in the strictest sense, but you've shown that it's possible no matter what your starting point is. What would you say is the key thing that you've learned from traveling? What's the number one takeaway that you've got from the experiences you've had?

Johnny - OneStep4Ward (46:38)
Oh, wow. Wow.

Euan (46:39)
I know.

Johnny - OneStep4Ward (46:45)
From traveling, I don't know, but from the journey that I personally have been on the last 16 years, whatever it is, is that if you truly commit to something, and that doesn't mean an inspirational quote shared on your Instagram and then back to bed. If you truly commit to something, I feel like…

Anyone can do anything. It's not about the background that you're from, the level of wealth of your parents, the education level you had or anything. If you really set your mind to it, I truly believe that anything's possible. And of course, like the concept of privilege exists and people have head starts, but sitting at home and moaning about that, it's not going to fix that. You know, you can still come from behind.

Euan (47:26)
I love that. So just to kind of wrap things up, Johnny, and it's such a shame that we have to, but just to kind of wrap things up a little bit, you know, I just sort of want to ask what's next for you because you've literally been everywhere. So what's the kind of what's what's what's blah blah blah. So what's the next thing you're looking forward to doing?

Johnny - OneStep4Ward (47:45)
I want to have kids so that, but from a like adventure perspective, I really want to or I don't want to. I'm in the process of setting up for yearly events that.

I know I'm a normal person who's done pretty cool things, but I equally, I still know I'm normal. I'm not an elite athlete and I've done things that appear to be elite athlete stuff, like rowing across the Atlantic or cycling across the continent, but I'm not, I'm just normal. I'm just a normal person who decided to do it. And I really want to create these four events each year that'll be repeated every year. But…

I want to encourage normal people to come and suffer through the events too. And then once they suffer through the agony of it and come out the other side, they'll be like, oh yeah, he was telling the truth. Like I'm not an elite athlete and look what I did.

And I also feel you had like in the era of social media, most people do the opposite of that. It would be in my interest when I rode across the Atlantic to be like, hashtag built different. I'm a beast. You guys are useless. Look, I'm like, oh, and I did all the polls and on the Everest and all like, yeah, built different. And it's not true. I'm just a normal person who committed to doing it. And any normal person can commit to doing anything. And I want people to do that through my events. So it's not, so they're not.

Sure they can be proud of it and show it off on their social media, but not to say that like I'm better than you, because it's not true. We can all do it. We can all do it if we set our mind to it. So anyway, I've got these four events. One's going to be a site like an extreme cycle in Turkmenistan because I've got good contacts there. One's going be an ultra marathon in Mauritania that I told you is going to get launched. It's actually probably going to be launched next week. It's going to be December this year. I'm doing a cool. The coolest one of all is in Thailand.

It's called the Tyathlon instead of the Triathlon. It's going to be a cycle from the most northern port of Thailand, a thousand kilometer cycle to Bangkok. And then it's to be a rowboat from Bangkok to one of the islands called Koh Samui, that's a thousand kilometers. And then ultra marathon around Samui to finish. And then the fourth one in the process of deciding it's going to be somewhere in the Arctic, it's going be like a cold, a cold race.

Euan (49:54)
So people can come and join you if they want to do the sort of amazing stuff that you've done already. Exactly. Call me no suffering. That's the idea. So now we've given hustle culture one in the eye as well, which is always useful. Where can people find you, Johnny? If people haven't read your story or heard you already, where can people find you?

Johnny - OneStep4Ward (49:57)
We're gonna suffer.

Exactly!

I'm not huge on social media because I worry about the effects that it has, but of course I'm on there with updates and whatever stuff that you can join me with. So on Insta and Twitter and Facebook, I'm at One Step Forward. And then my blog itself is onestepforward .com.

Euan (50:33)
Amazing. Well, Johnny, it's been an absolute privilege talking to you. I could have asked so, so many more questions and maybe we'll get to chat again in the future someday. But until then, all the best of luck with your communal suffering, I suppose.